So in essence, you're complaining because you couldn't kill your hard counter by flying straight at him.

Next time reserve a second post for editing later.

I am not saying I entirely agree with you, but I do like to see a well thought out and well-articulated argument.

I also like your AI tank idea. Just allow Tankers to fit small turrets in Large Turret slots.

Dropships are relics. It was a cool idea that has never been implemented to the Concept that CCP sold us on them in Fanfest.

The average Dropship user of today uses them for two purposes.
1) A Glorified Fighter jet
2) Means to get to an elevated position.


That is it.

This is why dropships have and will always be a massive Pendulum of Nerf/Buff.

The DUST Community has to figure out what Dropships are even for in DUST. Because roaming single pilot slayers makes no sense to the overall game and hurts it.

The Main vehicle used for troop transport in the Everyday DUST is an LAV..... This is a massive problem seeing how it has only 3 seats and a squad is composed of 6.

Spawning in the redline after all your points get wiped when your team has 2-3 dropships in the air? Even running out of the redline when you could be carrying a load of troops to assault an objective?


Dropships could facilitate fights and constant action for the entire battlefield...


Instead? Dropships kill every suit in the game in 2-3 shots.. And are wet paper bags for defense and have to run away when someone breathes on them.

Creating next to no competition between AV'ers and Dropships.

Instead of a dropship that can competitively return fire and defend itself with turrets while dropping off a load of troops at a height that doesn't require an inertia dampener activation.. Gets paid 50 war points each mercenary for transporting them safety over 200-300m, Mobile CRU to keep an active spawn place out of the redline, helping to perpetuate action and competition.


Dropships and how they work is like a giant joke played on the DUST community, and a monument to CCP Shanghai's Lazyness to fix obvious in your face problems that have existed for years.

*Remote Explosives are hard counters to Sentinel & Logistics combos
*Combat Rifles are hard counters to Armored Frames
*Scrambler Rifles are hard counters to Shielded Frames'
*Sniper Rifles are hard counters against players in open fields or on certain towers.
*20GJ Incubi are (well, were at least) hard counters against Pythons
*Well positioned Assaults and Commandos are hard counters to Sentinels
*Assaults on level terrain are hard counters against Commandos

Do I need to list any more examples of "hard counters" or is this enough?

Well your first problem, is that for some strange reason you decided that it would be a good idea to engage an AVer who's clearly prepared to engage you.

Your second problem is that upon the engagement, you thought it would be a good idea to stay there and eat an entire mag from a Swarm Launcher as opposed to escaping sooner, which you had plenty of time to do since 3 rounds impacting takes at least 4s.

The Afterburner change wasn't made because of Swarm Launchers, it was made because the super low cooldown meant that any ADS could escape virtually all engagements without risk 24/7, thus creating an imbalance between HAV/FG vs. ADS engagements.

It doesn't take skill to aim with an ADS either, as you aren't actually aiming the turret but rotating the ADS to align the reticule in a position where it will hit the target.

That in mind, the skill of operating an ADS is that of movement, not aim. Given how using a SL against a vehicle requires that you can strafe and evade their fire, it also requires movement skill as opposed to traditional aiming.

That aside, if you're killed by any Swarmer with a minor SP investment, you need to stop operating an ADS.\

edit: That's not to say however, that landing hits with an ADS doesn't require skill. However, the skill it requires is not actual aiming, but instead maneuvering.

This is why I go play War Thunder instead of getting in my ADS most of the time that I want to fly. Unfortunately I lack ideas for how to fix this problem. The first statement is more relevant than it may first appear, as I usually use assault/attacker planes in War Thunder so in both cases I am firing on ground targets.

No matter what turret you use, strafe runs are (sadly) impractical. I tried this with blaster turret, and I'm fairly certain that once some FGs spawned in they were either laughing at the thought process that made me think this could be effective at all, or swearing profusely as they could only hit me twice (both times with my hardner on) before I ran safely out of range. One bad maneuver and the addition of a red ADV swarmer was enough to stop this awful performance.

I probably hit them twice as many times as they hit me, sadly this was with a turret that does about 39 damage per hit and probably didn't even do full damage due to distance from which it hit them, I don't use missile turrets out of simple refusal to do so and rail turret strafing is just a ridiculous idea to begin with. I wish strafe runs were viable, but they simply aren't.

Oh, and a side point, blaster turrets still suck on the nose of an ADS, you might as well land on someone instead of shoot them with a blaster since it will be much more effective.

I think Judge's fallacy

"The arguer claims that they can always recognize when something is present. This is likely a fallacy because the arguer is not aware of all of the times that he/she did not recognize it."

I so overly potent in this thread...... especially so between vehicle and AV users its not even funny.

It's not about winning the argument. It's about you realising that you need to make concessions while you argue, as you are not looking at this impartially and like most Dropship Pilots are inclined to do exaggeration is very much so present in your previous posts when you discussed AV.

Atiim is in a similar position. Most of the time his feed back as an AVer (specifically Swarmer) should be considered carefully. He knows what he is talking about and if we as Vehicle users want meaningful balance have to listen to AV users and consider what they say.

To be fair the Minmatar Sentinel only increases each missiles damage by something like 31.2 @ proto level for a whopping total for 124.8 extra swarm damage per volley so there is not a huge difference between regular swarms and Min Commando swarms.

I feel that this is only one part of what would be needed to fix it, actually being able to see the target is an issue mostly because the ship itself entirely obstructs the pilot's view of the target unless they switch to the turret view, which completely disallows any independent movement that the turret may otherwise have, and this could help if the turret view actually is made to reflect the angle of the turret.
Honestly, I rarely fit my ADS for practicality anymore, and it's more of an expensive toy, that I use to prod the enemy when they are in elevated positions.

I find it hard to tank cost efficiently. The price difference between AT's and XT's is crazy?! I grind in ambush for weeks just to build 20 proto tanks to save lol! They're not really proto, just the mods, but they feel epically priced enough?! XT's cost almost 300k for one!?! I got tanks that cost that much lol!

I would add that we need advanced models now. Before definitely not, but now that swarms are buffed maybe it's time for the release of the advanced hulls?

STOP! CCP, when I say this I in no way mean for you to drop super Uber OP tanks into the game!!! At most give it more CPU/PG to fit the turrets better, and maybe some bonuses like passive armor repair on armor tanks or speed bonus on shield.

You have a knack for the OP. Don't do it! I would like to have the advanced tank option though. That would definitely justify the price tag. I doubt AV would mind now as they get points for damage, and the weapons actually take tanks out.

Just my two cents. I like tanking, and all my points are into tanks.